1 I would like to thank Joanna Jurewicz for reading the manuscript and for her Text Society: “Playing with Fire: the pratītyasamutpāda from the Perspective of. The arguments are based on articles by Joanna Jurewicz, which unfortunately I can’t easily access right now, such as “Playing with fire: the. Elsewhere Joanna Jurewicz has attempted to show that the choice of terms for the .. „Playing with Fire: Pratītyasamutpāda from the perspective of Vedic.

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Thich Nhat Hanh playung uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees. There is evidence that fire worship goes back well beyond the entry of the Vedic speaking peoples into India.

Dhamma Wheel

However, it’s hard to do fore to it without typing out several pages of the book I have been re-reading the notes from those lectures and wanted to highlight lecture seven which discussed the use of fire as a metaphor by the Buddha.

A volitional impulse kama – desire initiates the process of creation. It could also go jjrewicz six, seven, or eight links – nothing hangs on the difference. Rupa is described as the four great elements and nama as various mental constituents.

Dependent Origination and the Vedas Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts. That could be the case, although the way he is defining sankhara sounds more like a definition of cetana to me.

In brief, the argument is that the step chain is the result of pasting together two chains, and that the first four links are a parody of Vedic Cosmogony. Who is online Users browsing this forum: No commentator is infallible, right? Although not the standard interpretation in Buddhism, a psychological interpretation of Dependent Origination juredicz in ignorance tainting consciousnessin the same way the Buddha described the five hindrances tainting the mind, of water tainted with dye, water blown by wind, water overgrown with weeds, water put in a dark place, etc.


The primary metaphor for consciousness in the Vedic tradition is fire, hence the Buddha framed his understanding of consciousness in similar terms. It continues the theme of looking at the way the Buddha drew on the traditions surrounding him, especially the Vedic tradition, of images and concepts with which to communicate his Insight. Apologies for any confusion caused on my part. It would not be so surprising considering how much Buddhist doctrine is a reworking of preexisting concepts.

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. The Buddha, of course, was rejecting the idea of the atman and the denial of the atman makes the Vedic cosmogony meaningless.

For reference, the 12 links are: Then, at another point, the Buddha produced a different causal chain to ironize and criticise Vedic cosmogony, and noticed that it led very nicely jurewcz the earlier chain – perhaps because it is natural for the creation of the individual to lead straight on to the six senses, and these, via ‘contact’ and ‘feeling’, to thirst. Later, with Dependent Origination, he taught the same subject playiing more detail. They are the fuel for the burning desire that prolongs our existence.

Dependent Origination and the Vedas – Dhamma Wheel

No registered users and 4 guests. As for the specific link formulation, – it’s just one of the way in which Buddha expressed the Conditioned Arising model. The paper is a not easy to follow: Avijja ignorance ; 2.


This is important for contemporary Buddhists. In particular where the Buddha used metaphors drawn from the Vedic traditions, there have often be misunderstood by later Buddhists, even in some cases before the canon was written down.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. As for the rest of Gombrich’s speculations, they are based in a reincarnation interpretation of Dependent Origination rather than a psychological interpretation. Doctrines must be tested against experience.

As Tilt says, such ideas don’t necessarily subtract, they may well enrich how one views the Dhamma.

Desire, ‘the first seed of the mind’, creates consciousness. Sankhara mental fabrications ; 3. Gombrich has investigated other aspects of this fire metaphor. This is one’s right view. Jati birth ; Salayatana six sense-media ; 6. Realising that at this point in the chain there should be a reference to the emergence of the individual person with teh five khandha, the tradition made nama-rupa equivalent to the five khandha by saying that rupa was the first playying and nama referred to the other four.

This also occured with nama-rupa, it firw redefined as mind-matter rather than subject-object. The khandas in other words are an extension of the Buddha’s use of the fire metaphor. I’m not qualified to comment on the alleged Vedic parody entailed within the first 4 nidanas, but whether it is so or not, there’s a lot of deep Dhammic content entailed within the first 4, as exhibited through the teachings of venerable Nanananda.

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